Comments on Oot and Aboot with Some Canadian Skeptic: Why Feminism in Skepticism is Now More Important t...

Steve, it's so nice to see another man who get...

2011-07-08T13:58:38.743-04:00

Steve, it's so nice to see another man who gets it. I think you're right about "rape apologists"--I'd rather call them "[unconscious] rape enablers." If the skeptical community doesn't get this, it will become like Mensa--a place for lonely guys to show off how smart they are, to each other, and not relevant to the majority of intelligent people who could have belonged.

I am a female atheist who stopped participating in...

2011-07-07T10:02:58.208-04:00

I am a female atheist who stopped participating in any atheist groups/activities exactly because of attitudes like the one Richard Dawkins expressed.

Unfortunately, Dawkins is representative of a LOT of male atheists - "it doesn't happen to me, so it isn't a real problem."

Some might read this as an "angry feminist" reaction. But I am not angry. I'm just exhausted. It is so tiring to have to constantly explain no, I do not hate men. No, I am not a "misandrist." No, I am not hypersensitive. No, I am not making it up. No, I am not imagining the sexual assault I experienced as teenager. Why is it that when I talk about something that happened to me and took a terrible psychological toll, I have to first make sure not to hurt any men's feelings or make them in any way uncomfortable? Why are THEIR feelings about my assault more important than my own?

When men, under the guise of skepticism, challenge what happened to me, they are not really interested in the truth. They are interested in confirming their own worldview.

Women already undergo gaslighting from society when we talk about sexual assault and harassment - "are you sure that's how it happened? are you sure you weren't imagining it? are you sure you didn't do something to deserve it?" Little do people realize that these questions are basically telling a woman, "you are too stupid/hysterical/crazy to know your own life experience."

Part of what awakened my skepticism in the first place was my resentment at the Catholic Church's sexism. It was extremely disillusioning to find that atheists could be just as bad, and sometimes worse.

I have no desire to put myself in a space where I know I will be subjected to this kind of thing. Unfortunately, the dude-centric culture of a lot of atheist and skeptical communities ensure that this is exactly what happens. I feel lonely as an atheist, but that is no where near the psychological toll of being asked to prove my honesty and humanity as a woman.

I'd love to read it, thanks. I'm not sure ...

2011-07-05T19:52:12.020-04:00

I'd love to read it, thanks. I'm not sure I agree with you on this point, maybe because my outrage stems from elsewhere, but I look forward to talking about it.

Joey, I think a lot of the differences in how the ...

2011-07-05T16:21:49.904-04:00

Joey, I think a lot of the differences in how the matter with Stef is viewed have to do with whether one thinks a leader commenting on a organization's blog is representing herself or representing her organization. As a movement, we've been doing a lousy job of making those kinds of distinctions, and they drastically change what constitutes an appropriate response. I'm going to try to get a post up on the topic (covering much more than just this incident) in the next couple of days. I'd love to get your input on it.

"To be sure, women and visible minorities do ...

2011-07-05T15:52:45.039-04:00

"To be sure, women and visible minorities do receive an equal, and fair hearing in our lot. So why then, is there still such an imbalance of the genders and the colours?"

Can't speak to the race issue, but as far as women go, part of the imbalance may lie with the other part of this story: I personally am dissuaded by a woman blogger exercising her right to disagree with another skeptic, and being treated extremely unfairly for it. I don't even want to be involved in this "how to get women into skepticism" thing anymore because some of the hypocrisy there is just not something I want to deal with.

Joey H. (signed because I need a new OpenID)

This post is great. Very well done and important. ...

2011-07-05T10:01:09.095-04:00

This post is great. Very well done and important.

I would just further underline #2. What Dawkins said was really quite hostile and aggressive, just a step up from insensitive and into even more violent and creepy than the original incident we were all discussing.

Thanks for this. Mostly just giving you an approving shout ooot. (get me? i said oot)

Jennifer Michael Hecht

This is true, Stephanie. Rape Apologists are ou...

2011-07-05T01:42:33.650-04:00

This is true, Stephanie. Rape Apologists *are* out there. I did not mean to imply otherwise, and it's important to make the distinction.

I have no problems calling someone a rape apologis...

2011-07-05T00:50:52.969-04:00

I have no problems calling someone a rape apologist per se. I will agree, however, that in the context of an actual discussion (which not everything surrounding this is), it's often more helpful to point to specific things that are said and note how they support a rape culture.